Let's demand a clear, transparent selection process from SMF

[yixiong]

Hmm.. Since it is clearly stated that the athletes to be selected should have attained at least 6th placing in a national competition, and we're expecting to send the best of our athletes to represent us, why then are we sticking to youths? Any of the top 6 Open Men would have been a better viable option. Is there any clarification from the SMF on this?

With regards to projecting, yes, I believe they can achieve that grade. But with regards to competition, can they at least onsight a 7a+/7b now? Perhaps in due time they can with good training. But people like Haroz and Jay are already able to do that now.

From the looks of the list, it seems it's pretty finalized and neither is it polite to start doing a second round of trials and possibly removing those that have been accepted. So I guess nothing can be done about it?

[xiaoxian]

Hello,

On this issue, there is so much to say,
I find it very heartening that
1. There has been a proper selection for the youth, and it is clear who is in the youth team. Its a very promising group, who are now given recognition for their efforts.
2. This issue is being discussed and there is good effort in trying to make things better.

Of course the big question is: where do we go from here?
I definitely think that something can be done, and should be done. These are some thoughts I have -

1. Perhaps it can be suggested to the national coaches that the training for the National Youth team extends beyond PT. One of the greatest benefits of bringing a group of strong climbers together is so that they can exchange tips and learn from each other. Even if the coaches themselves lack the climbing experience necessary for guidance, much can be gained from national training. Each of the climbers have their strengths / weaknesses / training methods. Since these climbers mostly train with their respective schools (and I imagine, although they probably know each other, do not climb with each other much), its a great way to gain perspective.
2. We need to press SMF to answer the question: What does being in the National Youth team mean?
What happens when those in the Junior category next year when they are no longer youths? How about the boys who are going NS? What are the actual chances of representing Singapore in overseas competitions?
Many of these youths do not simply have climbing to think about. Most pressingly, what about school and parents? The youths need such information (preferably specifics, such as when the competitions are that they have a chance of competing in) to plan their studying schedule, especially during O/N/A level years. They also need this to convince parents, and gain their support for all the time they are going to put into training. More importantly, how do you convince the youths to stay on without some assurance that they will be given a chance to achieve their dreams and goals?

Beyond the Youth team, I understand the concern for the senior climbers. I definitely think that they should be given the opportunities where possible. I'm talking about the climbers who dominate the Open categories and are household names (e.g. Beatrix, Irwan, Jay) A lot of them have had more experience dealing with such issues and I definitely agree that their involvement (either in representing Singapore, training, or discussion) is necessary.

I would also like to draw attention to the group thats stuck in the middle - those in their early 20s, no longer youths, not part of the former group, but starting to make their mark in the local scene. University students fall into this category. From the results of this year's competitions, there is a clear emergernce of this group - say Jansen, Uyanga, Doris. Where can they go from here?
The youths are definitely the future of Singapore climbing, but these people are the immediate future. Because in Singapore the starting age for climbing is not as young (Here in the UK, its not uncommon to see little children who cannot be more than 10 years old, climbing on lead, trying fairly hard boulder problems.), we cannot afford to ignore this group.
(And on a side and personal agenda, it will also be nice to know whether there is something for those studying overseas.)

I'm definitely hopeful that there will be continued improvement to the situation as long as there is continued faith and effort.

And finally, I would like to thank Ben and all those involved in SCA in keeping the online platform alive! (: Its so precious to me, who's not at home to witness all thats happening personally.

[sgclimb]

Hmm.. Since it is clearly stated that the athletes to be selected should have attained at least 6th placing in a national competition, and we're expecting to send the best of our athletes to represent us, why then are we sticking to youths? Any of the top 6 Open Men would have been a better viable option. Is there any clarification from the SMF on this?

>>Have sent weekly emails to SMF since 3 weeks ago. No response. Probably feel that they are not accountable to anyone.

With regards to projecting, yes, I believe they can achieve that grade. But with regards to competition, can they at least onsight a 7a+/7b now? Perhaps in due time they can with good training. But people like Haroz and Jay are already able to do that now.

>>Being able to onsight 7a+/7b is not going to help anyone whether in World Cup, Asian Champ or SEA Games.Btw, Haroz flashed the 7c blue route at Yishun.

From the looks of the list, it seems it's pretty finalized and neither is it polite to start doing a second round of trials and possibly removing those that have been accepted. So I guess nothing can be done about it?

>>Well, there seems to be no oversight for SMF. Nothing that SSC can do. But i'll still try. Will start with AFSC, then IFSC, and the IFSC athletes commissions. Surely, someone must be concerned about this!

[sgclimb]

@Xiao Xian, how r you doing?!

I do not feel as heartened as you do. not when there is no credibility or accountability in the system; not when things are done without a democratic and fair process with regards to selection (athletes and coaches), not when our appointed coaches have zero competition experience, nor have climbed anything harder than 6c, not when every promises are predicated with a "ceteris paribus".

For our youths, there can only be disappointment and disenchantment, except for the chosen ones. Our youths will be subjected to a regime teaches them to be lap dogs just so they can get a pat. And discarded once their "youth" is up.

How else can they justify having athletes in the Youth Team athletes who will be in NS next year? Who will be studying for their A levels by July.
How else can they say they want to train a speed team and win, when they don't even have the facilities. Note - The international speed route is now a standard route, with defined hold positions. last year, with 1 month to go before the Asian Championships, they put up the "standard" speed route at Climb Asia. They took 2 weeks. Then they trained for another 2, and went with high hopes for the Asian Championships.They got crushed.
And at the National Youth meeting on 9th April, SMF offered nothing except introducing 1 rotund coach as the "nutritional " expert, and 1 rotund coach as the "fitness" expert, both with minimal background in climbing competitively. If the National Youth training is just PT, then its a waste of time. PT can be done alone. What is important is the mental and technical aspect that can't be gained, no matter how many PT sessions is conducted.

On the subject of accountability,
This year's league is called SBL, Singapore Bouldering League, because SMF would not endorse it. I had agreed to all their conditions on making the league credible and professional, but still they would not guarantee that the champions of the league will represent Singapore, even though i agreed to a sub-clause that SMF will make the final decision. They simply want that clause out of the endorsement criteria.

This shows how they are willing to play politics just remain in power. that just because they can't do something, they don't want another to do it, however beneficial it may to the community they are purported to serve in the first place.

SMF is a lost cause, until the management changes. until then, SCA will continue to make competitions better, provide support to athletes and schools, and seek to do a better job than SMF. Which is quite easy actually - i just lifted a finger.

[koolsice]

Another thing. the link you provide did not state any criteria for SEA Games 2011. So will it be similar to the criteria for Asian Games 2010?

Hi everyone.

Sorry for taking so long to reply but I have been busy. As mentioned in my earlier post, the qualifying criteria for an upcoming game (be it SEA Games, Asian Games etc) is the 6th placing of the last games. So if the sport is new, I think it will be based on how strong the recommendation of the NSA is to SNOC.

I've represented Singapore in one of the 4 major games listed on SNOC's website (won't tell you which) as a team manager. So I do know how things are run more or less!)

[beatrix]

I'm not sure if Fatin and Syahmi made it to the National team cos the last time I received an e-mail from SMF that non of the RP students got selected.

Anyway after reading all the comments, I have to say actually I believed PT helps a lot eps. for new climbers. But the thing is, the person who got appointed to coach the National as a PT instructor have absolutely no knowledge on what kind of PT works best for climber. (I can't be asking my climbing to do long distance running, some pull up, push up and sit up only) Coaches really must know very specific PT that will help the climbers and this will takes a climber coach to know the needs of a climber.

Looking at all the results from all the comps, those who top the list from all catergories are from school with excellent boulder wall and school that can afford to train in Asia or Yishun. As for RP, we only got flat walls to boulder with. And its almost impossible for my climbers to even do the starting move for all the comp if not for the PT that I've been drilling them with. (To begin with, a lot of them are very talented climbers that need very little help from me.)

After coming back from World Cup Championship about a year ago, I've come up with a new PT training program for my students but I'm rather reserved about sharing it with all cos I'm not sure if it'll works. I tell myself I'm gonna test this PT program with this batch of students first and see if it works. From the past few comps, RP is slowing making its way to the podium. Most of them climbed less than 20x on a overhang/roof wall in a year, attendance not very consistant but still managed to do pretty well in comps. I must say specific PT is really important.

As for nurturing the Youth, in other countries, ppl at the age 14-15 are already competing in international levels. I've a group of very talented U12 climbers who are not able to climb any 6B now but have lots of potential but are not being selected to be in the team. If SMF wanna groom the young, they should really start from this age group. So by the time they reach their 20s, they can really shine. See the 15 years old girl from Indonesia that came down to Climb on Sin and winning top 3 for enduro and the other 15 years old girl from Thailand that came down to pumpfest 2010, making it to the final. Can our youth do that in regional comps or even local comps? I'm not trying to put our climbers down but our climbers can also become one of the regional best too. Coaches play a very important role in an athlete career. I personally know the coach who trains the Thai girls, one look at him, u can't tell that he climb. The girls listened to him nonetheless and this is the result of it. So often our climber grew too good to listen to their coaches or seniors and that causes them their downfall. (Not referring to our "Elite" coach, cos they don't even know what they are doing)

Judging from the National team list, a lot of them doesn't justified their presence in the team. If anyone of u can recalled the same incident years back. Syafiq Utama joined the team w/o any result in comp but he proved his worth after being selected in the team. Andrew Lim getting into OM final in his first OM comp after joining the National team. Give these youth some time, with proper guidance they can blossom one day.

[sgclimb]

Thanks for the input Beatrix.

Different coaches have different views of how a coaching program should be, and in a way, SP's results is a clear indication of how a good bouldering facility is crucial to improvement of a climber, as they are not being coached competitively for bouldering.

If SMF is interested in grooming athletes at all, they should be getting more credible coaches, and giving a clearer, fairer transparent selection process for National Representation. Leaving things hanging does not do much to boost their credibility.

To SMF, how are athletes selected to represent Singapore? Is that so hard to give an answer to?